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	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on what you should know about darfur by Dale</title>
		<link>http://nbc.org.nz/2008/07/what-you-should-know-about-darfur.html#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 04:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nbc.org.nz/?p=136#comment-40</guid>
		<description>That's a very good and helpful summary of the scenario.  A very important thing to understand indeed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a very good and helpful summary of the scenario.  A very important thing to understand indeed!</p>
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		<title>Comment on To Creed or not to Creed? by Dale</title>
		<link>http://nbc.org.nz/2008/04/to-creed-or-not-to-creed.html#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 23:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nbc.org.nz/?p=116#comment-37</guid>
		<description>Again, good discussion here.
As pastors, Peter, Shawn and I are all fine with the current statement, but I'll suggest we add an additional note of affirmation of the Apostle's and Nicene Creeds.
Cheers!
-d-</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, good discussion here.<br />
As pastors, Peter, Shawn and I are all fine with the current statement, but I&#8217;ll suggest we add an additional note of affirmation of the Apostle&#8217;s and Nicene Creeds.<br />
Cheers!<br />
-d-</p>
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		<title>Comment on To Creed or not to Creed? by Memento Mori</title>
		<link>http://nbc.org.nz/2008/04/to-creed-or-not-to-creed.html#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>Memento Mori</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 03:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nbc.org.nz/?p=116#comment-36</guid>
		<description>I’m just going to chuck in my two cents worth seeing as Dale called for thoughts from others…

As far as the statement of faith goes I think it does ok.  It covers the fundamental ideas while being concise enough that people will bother to read it.  In my view a statement of faith should leave room for debate on non-essential theology (e.g. Calvinism versus Arminianism) but not leave room for erroneous belief to slip in (e.g. Modalism).

That being said I think a couple of things could be better described in the current statement of faith with the addition of a few words.  For instance:

I would add to the Trinity that God is one being made up of three personages and each personage is co-existent, co-eternal and fully God.

Ben is right in what he said regarding the section about Christ.  Just mentioning that he has two natures doesn’t quite cut the mustard for me either.  I’d like to see more of the hypostatic union outlined so there isn’t room to dilute or mix the two natures (no demi-gods allowed).

I also think the section on baptism should include not just the mode but take more of a stance against paedo-baptism and baptismal regeneration.

Including a statement about Christ returning (to judge the quick and the dead?) would also be worthwhile.  I’d prefer the statement of faith had a heading for itself but I’m sure changing a website is a nuisance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m just going to chuck in my two cents worth seeing as Dale called for thoughts from others…</p>
<p>As far as the statement of faith goes I think it does ok.  It covers the fundamental ideas while being concise enough that people will bother to read it.  In my view a statement of faith should leave room for debate on non-essential theology (e.g. Calvinism versus Arminianism) but not leave room for erroneous belief to slip in (e.g. Modalism).</p>
<p>That being said I think a couple of things could be better described in the current statement of faith with the addition of a few words.  For instance:</p>
<p>I would add to the Trinity that God is one being made up of three personages and each personage is co-existent, co-eternal and fully God.</p>
<p>Ben is right in what he said regarding the section about Christ.  Just mentioning that he has two natures doesn’t quite cut the mustard for me either.  I’d like to see more of the hypostatic union outlined so there isn’t room to dilute or mix the two natures (no demi-gods allowed).</p>
<p>I also think the section on baptism should include not just the mode but take more of a stance against paedo-baptism and baptismal regeneration.</p>
<p>Including a statement about Christ returning (to judge the quick and the dead?) would also be worthwhile.  I’d prefer the statement of faith had a heading for itself but I’m sure changing a website is a nuisance.</p>
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		<title>Comment on To Creed or not to Creed? by Ben</title>
		<link>http://nbc.org.nz/2008/04/to-creed-or-not-to-creed.html#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 06:11:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nbc.org.nz/?p=116#comment-34</guid>
		<description>It is not a question of whether we would exclude 'the life of the mind'.  I know that we don't. But are we 'seeking' the life of the mind. Do we seek (or pursue) to follow Jesus in a deeper understanding of the truth?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is not a question of whether we would exclude &#8216;the life of the mind&#8217;.  I know that we don&#8217;t. But are we &#8217;seeking&#8217; the life of the mind. Do we seek (or pursue) to follow Jesus in a deeper understanding of the truth?</p>
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		<title>Comment on To Creed or not to Creed? by Dale</title>
		<link>http://nbc.org.nz/2008/04/to-creed-or-not-to-creed.html#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 04:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nbc.org.nz/?p=116#comment-33</guid>
		<description>Cheers Ben,
No personal attack taken!  :)
Also, the form of the questions in the orginal 'blog' post (above) were to raise them in such a way that engenders discussion, not necessarily to endorse the (in my view) simplistic statement about Judaism being more concerned with o-praxy than with o-doxy.  I doubt anyone at Northcote (or within Judaism) thinks (thought) that God doesn't want us to be concerned with orthodoxy! :)
And likewise, I doubt anyone would exclude the life of the mind from the 'all of life' in which we seek to follow Jesus in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheers Ben,<br />
No personal attack taken!  <img src='http://nbc.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Also, the form of the questions in the orginal &#8216;blog&#8217; post (above) were to raise them in such a way that engenders discussion, not necessarily to endorse the (in my view) simplistic statement about Judaism being more concerned with o-praxy than with o-doxy.  I doubt anyone at Northcote (or within Judaism) thinks (thought) that God doesn&#8217;t want us to be concerned with orthodoxy! <img src='http://nbc.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
And likewise, I doubt anyone would exclude the life of the mind from the &#8216;all of life&#8217; in which we seek to follow Jesus in.</p>
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		<title>Comment on To Creed or not to Creed? by Ben</title>
		<link>http://nbc.org.nz/2008/04/to-creed-or-not-to-creed.html#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 04:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nbc.org.nz/?p=116#comment-32</guid>
		<description>Hi Dale. Please don't take my comments as a personal attack. 

I would question whether the 'about us' section of the church website is equivalent to an online foyer. Where else would one look for detailed information about what we believe? If I was looking for a church, that is the first thing I would look for. Of course, I may just be a sole psycho :)

Now to make a completely different comment. If Judaism was not so concerned with orthodoxy, then how come Paul could raise such a stir by mentioning the resurrection of the dead? And the Shema begins with a theological statement as the basis of it's orthopraxy. But the issue is not whether Judaism was concerned with orthodoxy or not, but whether God wants us to be concerned with it. Our church says Northcote Baptist Church...
...is a community of people who seek to follow Jesus in all of life. By all of life, do we include the life of the mind?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dale. Please don&#8217;t take my comments as a personal attack. </p>
<p>I would question whether the &#8216;about us&#8217; section of the church website is equivalent to an online foyer. Where else would one look for detailed information about what we believe? If I was looking for a church, that is the first thing I would look for. Of course, I may just be a sole psycho <img src='http://nbc.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Now to make a completely different comment. If Judaism was not so concerned with orthodoxy, then how come Paul could raise such a stir by mentioning the resurrection of the dead? And the Shema begins with a theological statement as the basis of it&#8217;s orthopraxy. But the issue is not whether Judaism was concerned with orthodoxy or not, but whether God wants us to be concerned with it. Our church says Northcote Baptist Church&#8230;<br />
&#8230;is a community of people who seek to follow Jesus in all of life. By all of life, do we include the life of the mind?</p>
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		<title>Comment on To Creed or not to Creed? by Dale</title>
		<link>http://nbc.org.nz/2008/04/to-creed-or-not-to-creed.html#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 03:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nbc.org.nz/?p=116#comment-31</guid>
		<description>Thanks Ben, for the comment and helpful links,
I hope you didn't take my comments to imply that detail = bad.  In the right context, detail is not only good, but a must.
Also, the main reason (the only reason, really!) for choosing that specific form was that it was what has been up in the foyer since before I came here.  And again, this website is much like an 'online foyer' to the church.  I hope you don't take the choice of that statement as somehow meaning that 'basic' expressions have 'won by default'.  I also hope you don't assume that persons who are 'OK' with such a basic statement (used in such a context) automatically don't 'actually care about what we believe'...
While we're not merely out to 'avoid controversy' (certainly not!), it seems that a 'foyer' context (online or actual!) is not the ideal place for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Ben, for the comment and helpful links,<br />
I hope you didn&#8217;t take my comments to imply that detail = bad.  In the right context, detail is not only good, but a must.<br />
Also, the main reason (the only reason, really!) for choosing that specific form was that it was what has been up in the foyer since before I came here.  And again, this website is much like an &#8216;online foyer&#8217; to the church.  I hope you don&#8217;t take the choice of that statement as somehow meaning that &#8216;basic&#8217; expressions have &#8216;won by default&#8217;.  I also hope you don&#8217;t assume that persons who are &#8216;OK&#8217; with such a basic statement (used in such a context) automatically don&#8217;t &#8216;actually care about what we believe&#8217;&#8230;<br />
While we&#8217;re not merely out to &#8216;avoid controversy&#8217; (certainly not!), it seems that a &#8216;foyer&#8217; context (online or actual!) is not the ideal place for it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on To Creed or not to Creed? by Ben</title>
		<link>http://nbc.org.nz/2008/04/to-creed-or-not-to-creed.html#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 01:24:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nbc.org.nz/?p=116#comment-30</guid>
		<description>So even though both groups have 'various reasons' for the amount of detail they would like in a statement of faith, the 'basic' group win by default it would seem?

Perhaps we could have two statements of faith to cater for both groups. One with a 'basic framework' for those who aren't too bothered. And a detailed one for people who actually care about what we believe.

For example, the Nicene and Chalcedonian creeds have been excepted by Christians in general as good definitive (not exhaustive) statements of what the Bible teaches regarding the Trinity and the person of Jesus Christ. These are a hang of a lot more specific than saying we believe Jesus is human and divine (like some kind of demi-god?). Do we as a church affirm these creeds?

Do we as a people place a stake in the ground regarding the infallibility and inerrancy of the Bible? Are we going to unite with our brothers in affirming the 'Chicago statement on Biblical Inerrancy'? http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Chicago_Statement_on_Biblical_Inerrancy

Do we have an official position on the Biblical manhood and womanhood debate (egalitarian or complementarian?) Can we unite over the danvers statement http://www.cbmw.org/Resources/Articles/The-Danvers-Statement

It seems strange that we as a Baptist church are specific in telling people what we believe about the mode of baptism (i.e. full immersion) but not saying that we believe in believer's baptism (as opposed to infant baptism), which is the more significant belief.

If we are concerned to avoid controversy, then we should remember that every point of theology that is worth anything has been controversial at some point in church history. What will you have left if you want to avoid controversy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So even though both groups have &#8216;various reasons&#8217; for the amount of detail they would like in a statement of faith, the &#8216;basic&#8217; group win by default it would seem?</p>
<p>Perhaps we could have two statements of faith to cater for both groups. One with a &#8216;basic framework&#8217; for those who aren&#8217;t too bothered. And a detailed one for people who actually care about what we believe.</p>
<p>For example, the Nicene and Chalcedonian creeds have been excepted by Christians in general as good definitive (not exhaustive) statements of what the Bible teaches regarding the Trinity and the person of Jesus Christ. These are a hang of a lot more specific than saying we believe Jesus is human and divine (like some kind of demi-god?). Do we as a church affirm these creeds?</p>
<p>Do we as a people place a stake in the ground regarding the infallibility and inerrancy of the Bible? Are we going to unite with our brothers in affirming the &#8216;Chicago statement on Biblical Inerrancy&#8217;? <a href="http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Chicago_Statement_on_Biblical_Inerrancy" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Chicago_Statement_on_Biblical_Inerrancy</a></p>
<p>Do we have an official position on the Biblical manhood and womanhood debate (egalitarian or complementarian?) Can we unite over the danvers statement <a href="http://www.cbmw.org/Resources/Articles/The-Danvers-Statement" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbmw.org/Resources/Articles/The-Danvers-Statement</a></p>
<p>It seems strange that we as a Baptist church are specific in telling people what we believe about the mode of baptism (i.e. full immersion) but not saying that we believe in believer&#8217;s baptism (as opposed to infant baptism), which is the more significant belief.</p>
<p>If we are concerned to avoid controversy, then we should remember that every point of theology that is worth anything has been controversial at some point in church history. What will you have left if you want to avoid controversy?</p>
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		<title>Comment on To Creed or not to Creed? by Dale</title>
		<link>http://nbc.org.nz/2008/04/to-creed-or-not-to-creed.html#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 22:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nbc.org.nz/?p=116#comment-29</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;more meat on the bones?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
:)
The question of how specific should a communities' 'official statement of beliefs' be is an interesting one.  For various reasons, some would want quite specific, detailed points included, while for other various reasons, others would be content with a more basic framework.
I transcribed the statement of faith word-for-word as it reads on a poster in our foyer.  I personally think it's quite an appropriate statement, especially given the 'foyer' context.  A 'deacons meeting' context would be different.  And in a sense, the website is more of an 'online-foyer', so to speak.
Thoughts from others?
-d-</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>more meat on the bones?</p></blockquote>
<p> <img src='http://nbc.org.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
The question of how specific should a communities&#8217; &#8216;official statement of beliefs&#8217; be is an interesting one.  For various reasons, some would want quite specific, detailed points included, while for other various reasons, others would be content with a more basic framework.<br />
I transcribed the statement of faith word-for-word as it reads on a poster in our foyer.  I personally think it&#8217;s quite an appropriate statement, especially given the &#8216;foyer&#8217; context.  A &#8216;deacons meeting&#8217; context would be different.  And in a sense, the website is more of an &#8216;online-foyer&#8217;, so to speak.<br />
Thoughts from others?<br />
-d-</p>
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		<title>Comment on To Creed or not to Creed? by Ben</title>
		<link>http://nbc.org.nz/2008/04/to-creed-or-not-to-creed.html#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 08:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nbc.org.nz/?p=116#comment-28</guid>
		<description>Hi Dale,

Thanks for putting up the statement of faith. But do you think we could put a bit more meat on the bones? It's a long way from the 1689 Baptist confession Warrior4Jesus mentioned. Surely the Bible is clear enough to commit ourselves to a bit more definition?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dale,</p>
<p>Thanks for putting up the statement of faith. But do you think we could put a bit more meat on the bones? It&#8217;s a long way from the 1689 Baptist confession Warrior4Jesus mentioned. Surely the Bible is clear enough to commit ourselves to a bit more definition?</p>
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